[Music]
Okay,
I guess
Welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Joseph
Hyatt Guyatri is insisting on some
maternity leave. Thanks by the way for
all the good wishes and mother and baby
are doing well. So young Joseph here one
of my brightest proteges is standing in.
The Freedom of Speech Brigade are out in
force trying to bludgeon RT into
accepting their anti-Russian Cold War
crusade narrative over Ukraine. The old
two-week historical memory is back.
Forgotten is the fact that Kiev is now
ruled by a government which came to
power as a result of a violent western
back coup against the former elected
government. forgotten to is the fact
that 49% of Ukraine's population who
speak Russian have refused to accept
this coup and have risen up against it.
Nowhere mentioned is the fact that the
Kiev regime promptly began an aerial
bombardment of their own people which is
usually a Q card for demands for Western
intervention. Malaysian Airlines Flight
17 was cleared by Euro control to route
over the war zone where several aircraft
had already been shot down by the anti-
Kiev rebels. Ukrainian air traffic
control kept the aircraft flying at
33,000 ft over an area many other
airlines like Quantis and Cafe Pacific
were refusing to fly over at all. It
came down with the loss of all 298
people on board and nobody nobody knows
yet what happened to it, nor the
previous Malaysian airline flight 379. a
few months ago. Joining us now to
discuss the tragedy and the context in
which it must be set is our own Ukraine
expert, writer, and broadcaster Neil
Clark. Neil, thanks for joining us. It
seems that for some on the right, the
Russophobic right in Britain, you're not
allowed even to question this narrative.
I was asked to go on RT shortly after
the news broke last Thursday about the
tragic crash. And I was on about an hour
afterwards. And I uh was asked what you
know what I thought was responsible,
what I thought had happened. And I said,
of course, it's too early to say. We we
we need we didn't know whether it was
connected to events on the ground in
Ukraine. We should keep an open mind.
And I said we should stay calm and stay
and stay forensic about our approach.
And yet having said that, I then go on
to Twitter and find I got a, you know,
enormous abuse from trolls on Twitter
accusing me of supporting the plane
being shot down, of being a Putin
apologist, a contemptable Stalinist. All
this abuse I got simply by not because I
didn't go on television and say it was
President Putin's fault. President Putin
shot this plane down. These people found
Russia guilty of a crime that the US
intelligence service has now exculpated
Russia from. Yeah.
uh before the bodies of these poor
victims were even called. Absolutely.
And the frightening thing is is you
don't even have to say, "Oh, yes, it was
the Ukrainian government did this or it
was the US that did this or whatever."
All you have to do is say, "Let let's
stay calm and and and let's take and
examine all the uh possibilities." No,
you've got to come out there by order of
the free speech brigade to go out there
and say it was Russia. 100% Russia's
fault. Well, one theory is that the
rebels shot it down. Second theory is
that the Ukrainian government shot it
down. Uh the United States intelligence
has said there's no evidence of any
Russian involvement in the shooting down
uh of the airplane. Uh but there's new
satellite images of two Ukrainian Air
Force jets in the vicinity of the
airplane very shortly before the crash.
What do you know about that? Well,
absolutely. We've seen the evidence of
this and Ukraine hasn't come up with an
explanation for this at all. And uh in
the British media there's been very
little coverage of this, very little
coverage of any alternative theories and
Ukraine has got a lot of explaining to
do. There's a lot of questions. For
example, the air traffic control
records. We want to see them. They
there's reports that they've been
destroyed. And if so, that's quite
extraordinary that the Ukrainian
authorities would do that. And why were
Ukrainian jets flying close to this
airliner? My theory was this. I thought
it had been debunked uh very quickly,
but it's back now on the table. I
believe the first Malaysian airliner was
the victim of a terrorist attack. So,
might the second Malaysian airliner have
been the victim of a terrorist attack?
And it now turns out that there's some
evidence of shrapnel damage on the cargo
door of the fuselage of the aircraft
which would point in the direction of a
bomb in the cargo hold which brought the
airliner uh down. This too is a
potential explanation. Absolutely. And
it seems we're not allowed to focus on
the fact the very strange fact that two
Malaysian airliners have come down in a
very short space of time. And Malaysia
is an independent country. George, an
independently minded country that's got
some powerful enemies. Uh we know that
Bush and Blair were found guilty in the
Malaysian court of war crimes. Malaysia
plows its own plows its own furrow. And
so it's again a perfectly plausible
explanation that the Malaysian Airlines
has been targeted in this way through a
bomb. Put this in context now. Uh here
we have a raging war going on in the
east of Ukraine. I mean uh two Ukrainian
Air Force jets shot down by the rebels
since the plane crash.
uh bodies lying all over the streets,
not only unburied but uncollected as a
government backed by the west massacres
its own people by bombs from airplanes.
the very thing that we joined the attack
on Libya quite for the possibility of
that happening and here it is happening
in fact in Ukraine and the usual liberal
left humanitarian hawks are silent and
of course the the other contrast is with
the situation in Gaza at the moment
because yes 298 people lost their lives
on the plane. It was a terrible tragic
incident but over 700 Palestinians have
been killed in Gaza this week George or
in the last couple of weeks most of them
women and children. most of them women
and children. And yet, while Russia is
being held guilty for the shooting down
of the plane or or the crash of the
plane without evidence, Israel is being
held innocent by the Western elite for
the crimes that is directly committing
uh in Gaza live on television. Live on
television. So, the double standards
surrounding this whole incident are
absolutely outrageous. So, how's the war
in Ukraine playing out and what's going
to happen? Well, what's happening is
that President Porhenko has been given
the green light by his US sponsors to
murder and massacre civilians in the
east of Ukraine. And uh I'm afraid
unless the US changes its policy, this
is only going to continue. They've even
been killing people very close to uh the
the flight crash zone this week. So uh
Porhenko gets his orders from
Washington. We know that uh United
States has created this this crisis in
Ukraine, the civil war. They wanted to
get back at Russia for thwarting its
plans uh to topple the Syrian government
and this Ukraine is the battlefield and
United States uh really is responsible
for this and the EU as well and it will
only continue uh it will it will
continue so long as the US wants it to
continue and uh it's a tragedy that's
not being reported uh if there's
something happen anywhere else in Europe
when you've got a government in Europe
that is murdering that is it's
massacring its own people hundreds of
its own people air strikes and as you
said in Libya We went to war against
Gaddafi on the basis that he might be
about to massacre people. Here, people
are being massacred and we're doing
nothing. What about the uh prospects?
Can the Kiev government prevail? Will
they eventually overpower overwhelm the
rebels? I don't think they will because
I think we've got to understand the real
hatred now in the east towards this
government. An understandable hatred
because the people in the east wanted uh
uh to negotiate. They wanted to have a
federal solution. And Porhenko since
he's come in, he launched the offensive
at the beginning of July, it's been a
brutal offensive. And if you bomb
people, uh if you destroy their homes,
if you kill civilians, then this only
makes the people more angry obviously
and it puts peace much further back as
we see with Israel's actions against the
citizens of Gaza. So I don't think they
will prevail because I think the people
in the east are determined not to give
in here. and Porrohenko uh doesn't
control uh most of his country or large
chunks of his country and he shouldn't
be allowed to win really George because
if he wins this would be a victory for
fascism we can't sit back and allow this
regime to win in Ukraine this is a very
important uh he himself a fascist no
he's not himself a fascist but he's come
to power with the help of fascists he's
got fascist in his government it's very
hard to get clarity on this story isn't
there I mean most of the you know aside
from RT the only real resource I've
managed to find is from from the
aviation herald from aviation expert you
know sites and enthusiasts because it's
just simply you know, clarity. I mean,
there's reports that the aircraft early
in the week potentially was being
followed by Sukoy Su25 Ukrainian Air
Force jets, but then there's reports
come from the Russian site suggesting
that uh these aircraft couldn't possibly
have a service ceiling of altitude to
fly with that aircraft equipped with
weapons. Um but of course what we are
seeing as well on on social media aren't
we is is perhaps the speculation that
there could be and I mean these are only
speculative thoughts uh another party
involved in this process perhaps nothing
to do with the actual region as a kind
of spotlight away from the situation in
Gaza. Is that plausible? Yes, I think
so. Definitely. I I think that this is
this is obviously what what we've got
here is a massive uh geopolitical
incident here. It's being exploited by
people. We know that uh the western
elites are violently anti-Russian and
anti-Putin and they want the general
public to be anti-Putin as well and
anti-Russian and it hasn't worked up to
now. I mentioned this last time I was on
the program that this sort of
Russophobia has been very much an elite
phenomenon and so what we're seeing is
exploitation of this tragedy to pursue a
existing anti-Russian uh agenda. And as
you said we could have evidence we could
be that other state state actors were
involved in this. We don't know yet.
There's certainly been beneficiaries. I
mean obviously uh uh the timing of it
was very beneficial to Israel because
the very night that this happened Israel
launched its grand offensive in Gaza and
uh so that uh we need to look at the
bigger picture here. There are a lot of
people who have gained by this tragedy,
unfortunately. And the al-Qaeda ISIS
phenomena, these are also potential
suspects because they don't like the
Malaysian government
and uh the
extremist uh factions around al-Qaeda,
splitting off from al-Qaeda and so on,
may well have uh been responsible for
other very recent aviation disasters. We
wait more evidence on that. Final word,
Neil. You say it's not working. Uh RT's
numbers are continuing to grow despite
all the propaganda. Maybe maybe that's
why the propaganda is there. Do you
think they're going to succeed in
turning the British people against
Russia? I don't think so. Because I
think it was interesting last weekend
when this Russophobia was at its peak in
the media, wasn't it? All these
headlines about Putin's missile, Putin's
kill my children, etc. that millions of
people were marching around the world
for Gaza. And this shows to me the
disconnect between the elite and the
people. The people are outraged about
Gaza because they see Israeli war crimes
before their very eyes and the whole
injustice of the whole thing. Whereas
with Russia, they can see, I think many
people can see through this now. They
know that the Western elites want us to
hate Putin. It's so obvious. It's so
transparent their agenda. Thanks very
much indeed for enlightening us. Coming
up after the break, it's all over.
bother shouting about Brazil's miserable
performance. That is the World Cup has
come and gone. So, what's next for the
emerging political and economic behemoth
Brazil? We'll be right back.
[Music]
Welcome back to Sputnik. Many billions
of dollars were expended by Brazil on
the recent World Cup. By popular
acclaim, the best World Cup in decades.
The bill might not have made so many
Brazilian eyes water, however, if the
home team's performances hadn't been so
melancholy. Brazilian football, on this
evidence, is a mere shadow of its former
self. But Brazil itself has never been
stronger, more influential, and more
prosperous. Even before the tournament
began, there were signs of an unease
amongst the people, the South American
giant. Strikes, demonstrations, and a
renewed focus on the mal distribution of
Brazil's great wealth where and now are
more and more evident. Joining us now to
discuss what's next for Brazil is Marcio
Delgado, a considerable expert and a
Brazilian. I I don't want a promise to
make you cry, but it it was a fantastic
World Cup, but the Brazilian team were
the worst Brazilian team in living
memory. It is true. Um as a Brazilian
myself, a mysterious shock, especially
after the last match against Germany, I
think was a shock for everyone. Even my
even the German friends. Yes. They they
they could not believe were too many in
too little time like which after 20
minutes would be difficult even to 20
minutes to get finished. Exactly. It was
very very hard. So is incredible for all
the wrong reasons I would say but yeah
well I mean it must make the bill which
is I think 11 billion dollar uh all the
harder to swallow for the Brazilian
people. It is especially because as um
we're gonna have election this year. So
is everything is a controversial right
now what to do uh with such money that
has been invested in 12 different states
where they've been kind of hosting the
games. So and we have those big uh white
elephant and what to do with those you
don't have like a proper project and
because of the elections everyone is
kind of thinking about how can I get
reelected or how can I get into the
politics and really it's no longer like
a big priority in terms of let's look
back what we've done wrong and let's do
something with the legacy in terms of uh
physical buildings. Well, everyone who's
ever hosted an Olympic games or a winter
Olympic games, I don't know about Soi,
the last one, but almost everyone who's
ever hosted one of these big
tournaments, complains for many decades
afterwards about the white elephants
that have been left behind. Now, is this
likely to cost the Brazilian president
her seat?
That's a good question. And she's not as
popular right now as the former
president that we used to have Lula that
he was reelected twice and and he was
very popular. Uh but she kind she tries
to go into his footsteps and do
something and was very well received the
World Cup even with all the troubles
that we had in terms of money the costs.
I think happened a lot something that
happened here as well 2012 with the
Olympics. The Brazilian they complained
a lot but as it got closer people start
to warm up to it. People start to come
together and they were really happy as
well because around the world everyone
was talk so many good things about
Brazil and that has been one amazing
World Cup. So yes for her that was a
very very good kind of business card. Uh
but there are other candidates as well
in Brazil and they are using the things
that didn't go that well including the
moot million price of event like that
against the her. So it's really a
controversial now and they are using as
I just said before the fact of what to
do now with those big big
white elephants there and there is no
concrete project there. The London
Olympics was a huge success for the
people who organized it. It was Mr.
Blair's Labor government that won them
and piloted most actually of the pre
Olympic period and then the
Conservatives were in power when the
tournament actually happened. So there
was no possibility of one side attacking
the other. But that's not the case I
think in Brazil which indicates an
underlying issue. Uh there is what
Joseph I think said in the introduction
an unease a malaise to some extent in
Brazil. It's never been richer. It's
never been more powerful never been more
influential but it's not really a
country at ease with itself. Why is
that? I think the gap the social gaps
that we have there they are huge and we
are really talk about uh it's so big
that's difficult to even to picture in
real life something like a film. You
have those houses and we you have like
TV presenters getting paid like uh
around um 1 million pound per month and
it's 1 million pounds per month. It's
like3 million. I should move to Brazil.
You should move there. Well, we got you
have to get on with the language of
course with how is it your Portuguese?
Not too bad. And then they they have
they even cannot drive uh they have
their own helicopter to get then from A
to B even the students in the same city
and these favllas just behind it and
they really in a very bad condition they
have to make with a few dollars per day
if you just convert the the national
currency in terms of salaries. So I
think that makes the whole thing so
controversial, so difficult because the
gap is not like you have like a little
bit different someone that has a bit
more of money, someone that doesn't have
as much. And I've heard reports
obviously that contraband is obviously
quite cheap as well. Is that correct?
Yes. On the and readily available. Yeah.
Yes. On the H3s and they kind of uh
throughout the World Cup they were
working hard to kind of stop it
especially because the whole media was
looking to Brazil. uh but you can buy
anything on the streets there in terms
of uh fixed products and things like
that. Is crime crime is a real uh issue
as a result of economic uh inequalities.
Yeah. And I think uh that was the the
thing that everyone was most scared of.
I mean myself as a Brazilian as someone
that lives overseas and there all the
time as well and the politicians because
that was the big thing that had to be
tackled some somehow because is well
know of course we always have to bring
it into context sometimes you see
something on TV about Brazil
a shooting or something like that is a
isolate area specific that it happened
we are talking about a country with 200
million people so it's a massive country
and sometimes something happen in one
specific place Rio S. that are massive
cities and it just get blown out of
proportion in terms of media because it
sells. What's the balance between uh
rich and poor? I mean are we talking 1%
99% is there a middle class? There is a
middle class now after those two
government Lula and now Duma there are
lots of social project and as we said at
the beginning uh the economy is kind of
warming up the Brazil is coming out of
the shell finally uh since I was a kid I
was growing and listening to the fact
the Brazil is the country of the future
and the future kind took quite a while
to arrive but there is a a massive gap
of it with probably 1% And then 99%
divided between the two. The middle the
middle class. The middle class basically
are the ones that would be work for the
government or public uh sector because
those are the ones that you have to go
and to compete against lots of other
people as well. And you have that
stability. You cannot be sucked. So it's
not only about the money, but it's about
something as well. Security is a
security that you have. Then you can get
a a nicer house. you can get a better
mortgage and and so on. So, and then you
move up. And what about politically? Um,
no sooner had the World Cup uh gone uh
but a big political summit took place.
All the world leaders uh headed for uh
for Brazil. Uh is are is the Brazilian
population glad that Brazil is now
talked about as a big power in the
world? It is. I don't think that they
fully understand and especially if you
bring it towards polit politics even
there you have to go and you have to
vote it's like it's kind of um you
cannot choose not to go and vote you
have to do it on the day otherwise you
pay a a fine something like that but in
terms of the projection that people are
aware of is much more when they talk
about the tourism or now the world cup
but we don't have world cup every every
year or so people are not really aware
ware of um that connection of how Brazil
is coming really they're not aware of
their own countries when you're there
it's difficult to see the whole picture
because you just see the transport that
is is still very bad the public
transport you see the education the
hospitals that you have big cues to to
get to the hospital to see a doctor and
it takes a little while to get an
appointment with your GP so they just
see really what's happening around them
because there's so much going on in your
daily Well, that's that's interesting
and takes us back to football. Um,
because I think I'm right in saying that
virtually none of Brazil's football
squad actually play football in Brazil.
That all of them play overseas. And yet
Brazil is a very rich country. If TV
presenters are paid a million pounds a
month, clearly there's the money in the
country to keep your best uh players in
a Brazilian league. Why has that never
happened? I think what happens that our
culture obviously is Brazil is waking up
for that right now and they're talking a
lot about the project for the very young
ones. The one that coming up right now
like 15 16 years old boys that plays
well in Brazil don't have that. is like
you don't have big project to keep those
very good players there when they are
warming up and become big names by the
time that they get to 21 somebody
somebody else overseas already took then
and kind of invested so that's what
happens a lot uh we don't have
internally and that's a big big big
problem we don't have projects in
schools that has a kind of a long time a
longevity everything is very kind of
immediate immediate like they do
something for 6 months, one year, one
project. Then when they change the
government or when the budget run out,
they just stop it and somebody else
comes with a new project, somebody
totally new and they just discard
everything that has happened. We have a
a history of a Oh,